Guten Abend Kameraden,
ich hatte grad ein verflucht komischen Traum. Ich bin aus einem Hochhaus geflogen.
Als ich dann aufgewacht bin, habe ich mich gefragt, was denn die beste Methode wäre, Stürze aus großer Höhe zu überleben.
Dazu habe ich mir folgende Internet Links angeguckt.
https://bestatterweblog.de/wie-sieht-da ... hoehe-aus/
Und anschließend den hier: https://www.google.de/amp/s/de.m.wikiho ... en%3famp=1
Da ich selber Selbstverteidigung ausübe und wir auch in jedem Training Fallübungen trainieren, wollte ich mal euren Rat wissen, welche Technik die beste Möglichkeit ist, um einen Sturz aus großer Höhe zu überleben.
Ich möchte zum Schluss noch darauf hinweisen, dass ich nicht Suizid gefährdet bin. Mir nichts antun möchte oder dergleichen und ich mich im Vollbesitz meiner geistigen Kräfte befinde. Außerdem soll der Artikel nicht zum Nachahmen motivieren.
Ich interessiere mich einfach nur rein theoretisch über diesen Gedanken und muss sagen, dass ich alleine schon erstaunt bin, dass Wiki schon dazu einen wikihow Beitrag erstellt hat.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Stixx
Technik Sturz aus großer Höhe
-
Cichorei Kano
- Braun Gurt Träger
- Beiträge: 254
- Registriert: 01.11.2007, 18:57
Re: Technik Sturz aus großer Höhe
Whilst you pose a simple question, seriously and comprehensively addressing it is a rather complicated task that involves physics, biomechanics and anatomy.
There have been people who have fallen from less than 5 cm high and who have died and there are exceptional cases such as the one of Czech Vesna Vulovic who fell out of a plane without parachute from an altitude of approx. 10,106 meters (>10km !) and survived.
Six weeks ago, a 21-year old kid I personally know, and who suffers from sleepwalking, fell from off the balcony on the 9th story of a hotel in Gran Canaria and survived a fall of 30 m despite being asleep at the onset of his fall. He had no martial arts experience whatsoever. I could place a link here to the recent newspaper article so you know I am not making that up, but since it is written neither in German, nor in English, I did not see the purpose of doing so.
A professor and friend of mine, one evening in London while about to leave work, found the doors closed, went to the roof, slipped and fell from the roof of his university on his face on the concrete while also hitting a concrete pillar during his fall. He was transported by helicopter to an academic hospital and survived too. I saw him, had broken his face in about 25 places, had all of his teeth knocked back in their sockets, lost eye sight in one eye, broke his pelvis, an arm and a leg, but survived.
So clearly, a great many factors are involved that allow a person to fall from enormous heights and sometimes survive, yet sometimes kill a person who falls from low heights.
The underground one hits, the body parts one hits the underground with, obviously play an important role. This is something that for most judoka relatively easy to understand. After all, there is a reason why we teach our ukemi methods. Several other ukemi methods beyond the 4 basic forms exist, also in judo some of which are so rare that they only appear in one or a few advanced kata, and therefore usually are known only by judoka of very advanced rank. Some jujutsu schools also have additional ukemi, such as, for example those where one ends bridging. Not all ukemi have the same protective effect, and not all ukemi work as well on every type of underground.
Clearly, ukemi skills play some role in judo injury, but even that process is more complicated than you may think. Nevertheless, novice judoka and children typically incur far more injuries due to improper falling than experienced and elite judoka.
Specifically for judo, the better the underground, the less chance for serious falling injuries. This isn't a simple matter of needing tatami, but also of the need for a sprung or floating floor.
One's body's fitness and anatomical and physiological integrity also play a role, or to use more simple terminology, muscle health, ligamentous health, joint health, bone health, and blood circulation health.
Now, as to the physics and biomechanical factors that affect the outcome, are th falling time, the maximum impact force and velocity, the elastocaloric effect (i.e. the falling body depending on what underground it hits will produce a certain adiabatic compression depending on the material of the underground in this way causing the impact energy to be partially absorbed resulting in an elastocaloric effect that changes the ensuing mechanical energy into heat), and the strain and impact reaction stress on the person's body.
In reality, one can make experimental set-ups to study some aspects, as long as one uses non-live objects. After all, under those circumstances it is easy to replicate eacy trial. It is, however, a lot more complicated with living subjects. After all, everyone knows how, for example, cats have the ability under many circumstances to twist their body's and fall on their paws. Something similar is also the reason why experienced judoka incur far less injuries even from chaotic throws, in comparison to novices or children.
This is all important to understand before coming to the last part of the answer, i.e. that there is no such thing as a single technique that would be best to survive a fall from considerable altitude. Instead, what matters is the ability of a person to instinctively and dynamically modify his body configuration at all times during the fall and specific for the significant factors that affect that particular fall under those particular circumstances.
Let me give you a practical example. Imagine you are in an elevator, and imagine I really do not like you and I decide to cut the cables of the elevator so that the elevator crashes down. Well, assuming that the elevator is constructed from strong enough material so that it won't crush when hitting the bottom, and assuming that the inside of the elevator is high enough, well then, if you succeed in jumping up a fraction of a second before the elevator hits the floor, you will survive completely unharmed. The challenge obviously is to find that exact moment since from inside the elevator you cannot see exactly how far you are removed from the ground, and your calculation of the exact moment will be harder the higher the altitude from which the elevator falls since that will affect its falling velocity.
Also, many years ago, when YouTube did not yet exist for so long, there was a video online, which was taped at a construction site, if I remember well, where they were building new houses. A couple of guys then tried out different kinds of ukemi from the first and second floor of the houses on the ground. In those days, the software to download YouTube video clips was not readily available so I do not have a copy of that video, and as far as I am aware, the video was taken offline many years ago. I am not sure, but I think they may have been Koreans. Needless to say that attempting to make judo ukemi from the first or second floor of your house on the ground is not a very good idea. Judo ukemi while sometimes very useful in saving you from harm on the street during a fight or accident, obviously were never conceived with as a purpose, "making ukemi from the first or second floor of your house" ... keep that in mind ... Using things for purposes other than what they were made for oftentimes can leave you with unexpected, painful, or even awkward injuries, trust me ...
There have been people who have fallen from less than 5 cm high and who have died and there are exceptional cases such as the one of Czech Vesna Vulovic who fell out of a plane without parachute from an altitude of approx. 10,106 meters (>10km !) and survived.
Six weeks ago, a 21-year old kid I personally know, and who suffers from sleepwalking, fell from off the balcony on the 9th story of a hotel in Gran Canaria and survived a fall of 30 m despite being asleep at the onset of his fall. He had no martial arts experience whatsoever. I could place a link here to the recent newspaper article so you know I am not making that up, but since it is written neither in German, nor in English, I did not see the purpose of doing so.
A professor and friend of mine, one evening in London while about to leave work, found the doors closed, went to the roof, slipped and fell from the roof of his university on his face on the concrete while also hitting a concrete pillar during his fall. He was transported by helicopter to an academic hospital and survived too. I saw him, had broken his face in about 25 places, had all of his teeth knocked back in their sockets, lost eye sight in one eye, broke his pelvis, an arm and a leg, but survived.
So clearly, a great many factors are involved that allow a person to fall from enormous heights and sometimes survive, yet sometimes kill a person who falls from low heights.
The underground one hits, the body parts one hits the underground with, obviously play an important role. This is something that for most judoka relatively easy to understand. After all, there is a reason why we teach our ukemi methods. Several other ukemi methods beyond the 4 basic forms exist, also in judo some of which are so rare that they only appear in one or a few advanced kata, and therefore usually are known only by judoka of very advanced rank. Some jujutsu schools also have additional ukemi, such as, for example those where one ends bridging. Not all ukemi have the same protective effect, and not all ukemi work as well on every type of underground.
Clearly, ukemi skills play some role in judo injury, but even that process is more complicated than you may think. Nevertheless, novice judoka and children typically incur far more injuries due to improper falling than experienced and elite judoka.
Specifically for judo, the better the underground, the less chance for serious falling injuries. This isn't a simple matter of needing tatami, but also of the need for a sprung or floating floor.
One's body's fitness and anatomical and physiological integrity also play a role, or to use more simple terminology, muscle health, ligamentous health, joint health, bone health, and blood circulation health.
Now, as to the physics and biomechanical factors that affect the outcome, are th falling time, the maximum impact force and velocity, the elastocaloric effect (i.e. the falling body depending on what underground it hits will produce a certain adiabatic compression depending on the material of the underground in this way causing the impact energy to be partially absorbed resulting in an elastocaloric effect that changes the ensuing mechanical energy into heat), and the strain and impact reaction stress on the person's body.
In reality, one can make experimental set-ups to study some aspects, as long as one uses non-live objects. After all, under those circumstances it is easy to replicate eacy trial. It is, however, a lot more complicated with living subjects. After all, everyone knows how, for example, cats have the ability under many circumstances to twist their body's and fall on their paws. Something similar is also the reason why experienced judoka incur far less injuries even from chaotic throws, in comparison to novices or children.
This is all important to understand before coming to the last part of the answer, i.e. that there is no such thing as a single technique that would be best to survive a fall from considerable altitude. Instead, what matters is the ability of a person to instinctively and dynamically modify his body configuration at all times during the fall and specific for the significant factors that affect that particular fall under those particular circumstances.
Let me give you a practical example. Imagine you are in an elevator, and imagine I really do not like you and I decide to cut the cables of the elevator so that the elevator crashes down. Well, assuming that the elevator is constructed from strong enough material so that it won't crush when hitting the bottom, and assuming that the inside of the elevator is high enough, well then, if you succeed in jumping up a fraction of a second before the elevator hits the floor, you will survive completely unharmed. The challenge obviously is to find that exact moment since from inside the elevator you cannot see exactly how far you are removed from the ground, and your calculation of the exact moment will be harder the higher the altitude from which the elevator falls since that will affect its falling velocity.
Also, many years ago, when YouTube did not yet exist for so long, there was a video online, which was taped at a construction site, if I remember well, where they were building new houses. A couple of guys then tried out different kinds of ukemi from the first and second floor of the houses on the ground. In those days, the software to download YouTube video clips was not readily available so I do not have a copy of that video, and as far as I am aware, the video was taken offline many years ago. I am not sure, but I think they may have been Koreans. Needless to say that attempting to make judo ukemi from the first or second floor of your house on the ground is not a very good idea. Judo ukemi while sometimes very useful in saving you from harm on the street during a fight or accident, obviously were never conceived with as a purpose, "making ukemi from the first or second floor of your house" ... keep that in mind ... Using things for purposes other than what they were made for oftentimes can leave you with unexpected, painful, or even awkward injuries, trust me ...
Re: Technik Sturz aus großer Höhe
Fallschirme haben sich schon oft bewährt ...
Stuntmen nutzen in der Landezone Stapel aus Pappkartons ...
Oder Du nutzt ein Gummiseil wie beim Bungee-Springen ...
Raumkapseln nutzen auch Bremsraketen (neben Fallschirmen)
Mit freundlichem Gruß
Fritz
Fritz
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CombatWombat
- Orange Gurt Träger
- Beiträge: 35
- Registriert: 24.02.2015, 12:23
Re: Technik Sturz aus großer Höhe
Schau dir mal Videos von Parkour-Leuten an. Die springen von großen Höhen und kommen durch eine gute Fallschule unbeschadet davon. Ich rede hier mal von geschätzt 5-7 Meter Höhe. Ich habs auch mal probiert und bin bis ca. 2,5 Meter gekommen. War mit der Judo-Fallschule kein Problem, aber höher hab ich mich nicht getraut.
Re: Technik Sturz aus großer Höhe
Parkour wäre mir zu riskant. Das sehe ich eher als Extremsportart an. Ein Fehler und du landest auf deinem Kopf und bis schwerstbehindert. Aber schön anzuschauen ist es natürlich.